https://meatcastle.substack.com/p/talking-about-adventures-systems An interesting grab-bag of a piece that touches on the state of #ttrpg reviewing.
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@Taskerland I wonder to what extent that's because gaming has so few real producers of any magnitude so those who monetize their thoughts on it, have lean into WotC (and other salient producers)
I think though it has as a field started to resemble music reviewing in that it nets you nothing to dislike a popular release and your money will be made on finding a group of people who agree with you liking it.
Actually Draw Steel/DaggerThing are just album releases aren't they? Release-Tour, Next.
@Printdevil The question of why certain media generate robust critical traditions is interesting but the rule of thumb is that developing it and maintaining it requires effort and TTRPGs have never been willing (either at producer or consumer level) to support that style of commentary.
TTRPG people historically like the chef-patron yelling at diners from the kitchen door. Nowadays they want validation for spending money on stuff they won't use.
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@Taskerland @Printdevil A quite separate problem, which is more obvious in boardgames: if you review positively you get more stuff from the publisher. If you review negatively you don't. (Which is fair enough on their part, they have no financial interest in negative reviews.) If you review _everything_ positively, nobody's going to call you on it (except awkward bastards like me to say things like "another boring looking kickstarter, does it have a review by UndeadViking,, they really couldn't find anyone else to say something nice about it could they?".
So there's basically no incentive apart from your own intrinsic honesty to be an honest reviewer, never mind a critic. Which is why I applaud No Pun Included, who are AIUI the _only_ boardgame reviewers not to accept review copies.
But back in the RPG world you have the same people, "woo a new thing from Hasbro best D&D ever".My nephew who has nothing intrinsically wrong with him and is now a grown man, used to think every game was the best game ever, and every day was the best day ever. A complete delight in novelty.
I don't actually have a fault with that, and I'd be mildly jealous of the joy if I weren't made of poisonous bats and Guy de Maupassant references.
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@Taskerland @Printdevil A quite separate problem, which is more obvious in boardgames: if you review positively you get more stuff from the publisher. If you review negatively you don't. (Which is fair enough on their part, they have no financial interest in negative reviews.) If you review _everything_ positively, nobody's going to call you on it (except awkward bastards like me to say things like "another boring looking kickstarter, does it have a review by UndeadViking,, they really couldn't find anyone else to say something nice about it could they?".
So there's basically no incentive apart from your own intrinsic honesty to be an honest reviewer, never mind a critic. Which is why I applaud No Pun Included, who are AIUI the _only_ boardgame reviewers not to accept review copies.
But back in the RPG world you have the same people, "woo a new thing from Hasbro best D&D ever".@RogerBW Quite so. RPG people often drone on about how people need to play stuff before they review it but Questing Beast and Playful Void are respected despite *never* playing what they review. Why? Because they rarely put out negative reviews and sellers appreciate sales while buyers want validation for their purchases. @Printdevil
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@Printdevil The question of why certain media generate robust critical traditions is interesting but the rule of thumb is that developing it and maintaining it requires effort and TTRPGs have never been willing (either at producer or consumer level) to support that style of commentary.
TTRPG people historically like the chef-patron yelling at diners from the kitchen door. Nowadays they want validation for spending money on stuff they won't use.
@Taskerland Won't use and visible in the case of kickstarters "haven't opened"
Although as I mentioned the other day, I am prone to buying a scenario I like the look of and paralysing myself with "but what if I want to play in it" and then not reading it, but owning it.
I have a shelf full of uncollapsed quantum thought experiments.
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@RogerBW Quite so. RPG people often drone on about how people need to play stuff before they review it but Questing Beast and Playful Void are respected despite *never* playing what they review. Why? Because they rarely put out negative reviews and sellers appreciate sales while buyers want validation for their purchases. @Printdevil
@Taskerland @Printdevil Oh yeah, I first met that with high-end digital cameras: big expensive thing, and some people want to be reassured they've bought the right one.
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My nephew who has nothing intrinsically wrong with him and is now a grown man, used to think every game was the best game ever, and every day was the best day ever. A complete delight in novelty.
I don't actually have a fault with that, and I'd be mildly jealous of the joy if I weren't made of poisonous bats and Guy de Maupassant references.
@Printdevil If I started behaving like that people would just assume that I had hit my head. @RogerBW
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@RogerBW Quite so. RPG people often drone on about how people need to play stuff before they review it but Questing Beast and Playful Void are respected despite *never* playing what they review. Why? Because they rarely put out negative reviews and sellers appreciate sales while buyers want validation for their purchases. @Printdevil
I'd quite like a job reviewing television programs on this basis. Is that available?
I almost never watch television, but I could imagine reviews of liking it, providing you could guarantee I wasn't exposed to the material.
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@Printdevil If I started behaving like that people would just assume that I had hit my head. @RogerBW
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@Taskerland @Printdevil Oh yeah, I first met that with high-end digital cameras: big expensive thing, and some people want to be reassured they've bought the right one.
@RogerBW @Printdevil Cameras pose a similar challenge as they're tools and people can use tools in any number of different ways. Impossible for a reviewer to know if a given camera will fit in a particular workflow. Even 'sharpness' of lenses is not a neutral characteristics as some lenses are pleasingly imperfect for some people.
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@Taskerland @Printdevil Oh yeah, I first met that with high-end digital cameras: big expensive thing, and some people want to be reassured they've bought the right one.
Like Stereophiles, Camera Owners are a special form of lunatic.
I've seen it at the extreme end of Studios going almost bankrupt because of sudden urgent need of "the £20,000 lens they will use once"
This is why I recommend fixating on a single appearance monster from the early seventies. You can feel like a compleatist in a matter of hours, without having to teach yourself Japanese like @vortiwife
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Like Stereophiles, Camera Owners are a special form of lunatic.
I've seen it at the extreme end of Studios going almost bankrupt because of sudden urgent need of "the £20,000 lens they will use once"
This is why I recommend fixating on a single appearance monster from the early seventies. You can feel like a compleatist in a matter of hours, without having to teach yourself Japanese like @vortiwife
@Printdevil @RogerBW @Taskerland i know that saying the words "Leica M8" can activate a kind of manchurian candidate response in a certain kind of camera nerd
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@RogerBW @Printdevil Cameras pose a similar challenge as they're tools and people can use tools in any number of different ways. Impossible for a reviewer to know if a given camera will fit in a particular workflow. Even 'sharpness' of lenses is not a neutral characteristics as some lenses are pleasingly imperfect for some people.
People have made careers out of weird old imperfect lenses indeed.
Anything with tools always tends to border between jealous modernity, frothingly specific obsession and wondering if you are collecting Victorian ones because they have a dragon on the handle.
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@Printdevil @RogerBW @Taskerland i know that saying the words "Leica M8" can activate a kind of manchurian candidate response in a certain kind of camera nerd
Anything you couldn't tell a story about both technically and narratively was described as "a snap" by my employers.
Which still annoys me because they retroactively made everything up to imply they were artistic.
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@Printdevil If I started behaving like that people would just assume that I had hit my head. @RogerBW
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People have made careers out of weird old imperfect lenses indeed.
Anything with tools always tends to border between jealous modernity, frothingly specific obsession and wondering if you are collecting Victorian ones because they have a dragon on the handle.
@Printdevil Also, there are people who are camera nerds and guitar nerds who drone on about specs and, by and large, they are never good musicians or photographers. @RogerBW
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@Printdevil Also, there are people who are camera nerds and guitar nerds who drone on about specs and, by and large, they are never good musicians or photographers. @RogerBW
I think that's what leads to their/peoples fascination with old cameras or low spec cameras, or process methods like wet development and pin holes. Or pre-decent digital. They've grown up in a time when digital cameras are fantastic, guitar tech isn't soldering and hope, and car batteries don't need topped up in the morning. There's no creative tension. No forced necessity. So you get people with a £10-15k rig getting more fun out of a disposable.
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@Printdevil @RogerBW @Taskerland i know that saying the words "Leica M8" can activate a kind of manchurian candidate response in a certain kind of camera nerd
At his point I should note I'm very disappointed in the lack of gargoyles in the Bokeh effect now available in camera on most digitals.
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I think that's what leads to their/peoples fascination with old cameras or low spec cameras, or process methods like wet development and pin holes. Or pre-decent digital. They've grown up in a time when digital cameras are fantastic, guitar tech isn't soldering and hope, and car batteries don't need topped up in the morning. There's no creative tension. No forced necessity. So you get people with a £10-15k rig getting more fun out of a disposable.
@RogerBW @Printdevil Indeed. Discovering that material constraints are often aesthetic constraints and aesthetic constraints can be very productive.
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At his point I should note I'm very disappointed in the lack of gargoyles in the Bokeh effect now available in camera on most digitals.
@Printdevil @vortiwife @Taskerland You can't see the gargoyles?
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@RogerBW @Printdevil Indeed. Discovering that material constraints are often aesthetic constraints and aesthetic constraints can be very productive.
That's what has lead to so many "500 Ideas to Improve..." type books in photography I think. You don't learn via old methods of desperation and waiting for development time (or Boots), people have all the editing, manipulation, and creative tools on tap. Confronted with everything all at once, people seek creative guardrails.
Or just ask an ai and don't worry about it.
