This was a good piece about adventures that leave space for GMs to make their own creative decisions: https://bluemountain.bearblog.dev/chew-your-own-damn-food/
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There was a similar problem in the 80s and 90s when designers took it upon themselves to second-guess GMs and impose outcomes through the use of narrative guardrails.
Nowadays the same instinct has returned but the guardrails are generally procedural (in the case of the OSR) or structural (in the case of storygames).
@Taskerland For me as a player ... I expect the GM to protect our table from all externally-imposed outcomes of any kind, from any source.
Which, fortunately, is a trivial matter for a GM to do, since they're the GM.
"You insist that I do WHAT, module? You may fuck directly off."
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@Taskerland Starting as I do with "the GM is god", I expect any material by other hands incorporated into a campaign to be filtered and mangled through the GM before it gets to the players. The author of the adventure is giving me a pile of Lego bricks, not an Airfix kit.
@RogerBW @Taskerland Similar here, though I'd never want to demote the GM to god.
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@RogerBW @Taskerland Similar here, though I'd never want to demote the GM to god.
@SJohnRoss @Taskerland Well, an absolutist mind-of-the-universe sort of god rather than one constrained by a mythology.
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@SJohnRoss @Taskerland Well, an absolutist mind-of-the-universe sort of god rather than one constrained by a mythology.
@RogerBW @Taskerland As I've said for a long time: "God is just one of my little NPCs."
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@Taskerland Definitely this.
I love a good piece of design but it's ultimately just craft supplies.
@SJohnRoss It's just preposterous really... Every time I stick my nose in the door at Bluesky, it's someone roaring about how they know better about what my friends and I are likely to enjoy playing.
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@SJohnRoss It's just preposterous really... Every time I stick my nose in the door at Bluesky, it's someone roaring about how they know better about what my friends and I are likely to enjoy playing.
@Taskerland Fortunately, when I look at Bluesky it's mostly old movie stills and comic book covers. Well, and lots of political misery Bluesky doesn't give me the tools to filter out.
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This was a good piece about adventures that leave space for GMs to make their own creative decisions: https://bluemountain.bearblog.dev/chew-your-own-damn-food/
@Taskerland In rare event that I'm buying a module, I want it to be open enough that I can drop it into any campaign. On the other hand I don't want to be doing any non creative prep, e.g. as a GM I shouldn't have to go hunting stat blocks for monsters, make maps for someone else's dungeon, organise info that is scattered throughout the module. Give me space to place it in a setting and make creative decisions, yes, but the module designer better have done all the tedious busywork.
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@Taskerland In rare event that I'm buying a module, I want it to be open enough that I can drop it into any campaign. On the other hand I don't want to be doing any non creative prep, e.g. as a GM I shouldn't have to go hunting stat blocks for monsters, make maps for someone else's dungeon, organise info that is scattered throughout the module. Give me space to place it in a setting and make creative decisions, yes, but the module designer better have done all the tedious busywork.
It's odd how many scenarios that have been around for a long long time have glaring omissions in their provided maps and prep. Shadows of Yog-Sothoth has glaring gaps and it's been around for decades. It's quite common in Chaosium stuff to find reddits full of people asking questions "where is the map of Mr Doglather's house?" and the like.
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It's odd how many scenarios that have been around for a long long time have glaring omissions in their provided maps and prep. Shadows of Yog-Sothoth has glaring gaps and it's been around for decades. It's quite common in Chaosium stuff to find reddits full of people asking questions "where is the map of Mr Doglather's house?" and the like.
@Printdevil I think it was only last year I was looking at the scottish chapter of Yog-Sothoth and sent you a list of inconsistent, ambiguous and missing information.
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There was a similar problem in the 80s and 90s when designers took it upon themselves to second-guess GMs and impose outcomes through the use of narrative guardrails.
Nowadays the same instinct has returned but the guardrails are generally procedural (in the case of the OSR) or structural (in the case of storygames).
Moreau Vazh This is why I don’t run APs (since strong narrative guardrails need to be set by the end of one book/chapter in order to actually facilitate the flow from one episode to the next).
The flip side of this is that I also just don’t seem to be able to fit in in the general online TTRPG spaces, since they’re either filled with people who think that pre-written adventures should be as linearized and as firewalled as possible, or those who refuse to accept rules sets as anything short of the inflexible, inarguable commandments from God Almighty. Meanwhile, I also can’t stomach OSR spaces and circle jerk around “rulings not rules”, because I still expect to get some kind of state or physics engine out of these things I’m paying for.
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Moreau Vazh This is why I don’t run APs (since strong narrative guardrails need to be set by the end of one book/chapter in order to actually facilitate the flow from one episode to the next).
The flip side of this is that I also just don’t seem to be able to fit in in the general online TTRPG spaces, since they’re either filled with people who think that pre-written adventures should be as linearized and as firewalled as possible, or those who refuse to accept rules sets as anything short of the inflexible, inarguable commandments from God Almighty. Meanwhile, I also can’t stomach OSR spaces and circle jerk around “rulings not rules”, because I still expect to get some kind of state or physics engine out of these things I’m paying for.
@kichae I was initially drawn to the OSR because of "rulings not rules" but that is very much not the vibe anymore.
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@kichae I was initially drawn to the OSR because of "rulings not rules" but that is very much not the vibe anymore.
Moreau Vazh “Rulings, not rules” is fine and dandy if someone is marking down the rulings and ensuring consistency over time. But then rulings become rules, or valence players become tools for the GM and their bestie to play with.
I’d rather have rules I can ignore than rules I need to make up and codity myself in order to maintain my own self respect.
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Moreau Vazh “Rulings, not rules” is fine and dandy if someone is marking down the rulings and ensuring consistency over time. But then rulings become rules, or valence players become tools for the GM and their bestie to play with.
I’d rather have rules I can ignore than rules I need to make up and codity myself in order to maintain my own self respect.
@kichae To each their own bud
My games tend to be quite socially-anchored and there's a lot of 'what would make sense in this situation?' where it's partly me making rulings, partly players explaining their thinking, and partly the group negotiating stuff. -
@kichae To each their own bud
My games tend to be quite socially-anchored and there's a lot of 'what would make sense in this situation?' where it's partly me making rulings, partly players explaining their thinking, and partly the group negotiating stuff.Moreau Vazh Indeed. And that’s great at the table level. I run my games very similarly. The issue is more… “out there”, you know? Like, when “rulings, not rules” becomes a mantra that translates to “the GM has spoken, so sit the fuck down”.
I’ve seen the moden/OSR divide spoken of as “high trust” vs “low trust”, and the bulk of the OSR community has kind of shown itself to be individuals you probably shouldn’t trust demanding to be in high trust environments.
Meanwhile, the modern game landscape seems to be split between people who refuse to read, and people who refuse to think for themselves.
Everywhere you look, it’s kind of a hellscape.
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@Taskerland For me as a player ... I expect the GM to protect our table from all externally-imposed outcomes of any kind, from any source.
Which, fortunately, is a trivial matter for a GM to do, since they're the GM.
"You insist that I do WHAT, module? You may fuck directly off."
@SJohnRoss @Taskerland The thing is, the target demo of people who consume canned adventures are either fans of railroading or people who don't mind them. High-trust GMs using canned goods are the exception, not the norm.
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There was a similar problem in the 80s and 90s when designers took it upon themselves to second-guess GMs and impose outcomes through the use of narrative guardrails.
Nowadays the same instinct has returned but the guardrails are generally procedural (in the case of the OSR) or structural (in the case of storygames).
@Taskerland History moves in cycles and gaming is not the exception (hell, someone recently re-invented Marauder 2107).
