I am a big advocate of the idea that GMs don't just take responsibility for in-game narratives and smoothing out which mechanics actually get used, they also have social responsibilities.
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@sbszine Exactly. When a player creates a character who is a dildo salesman, you should make sure to have a couple of sessions about selling dildoes.
@Taskerland I am still learning this stuff and after 35ish years of GMing I hope to one day get it right.
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Reading it has been interesting as there are a lot of assumptions made about context but they're barely stated and aren't supported.
I am intrigued because a) I have never run it before and b) the lack of a properly developed social layer invites re-interpretation.
I feel like, at this point, Keep is almost like a folk or jazz standard. It is there to be adapted and re-worked.
@Taskerland Have you Return to Keep on the Borderlands. I had quite good fun running it with a heavy implication of "that wish has gone before" constantly to a group of players who'd never done KotB. It gave it all a totally undeserved gravitas and I kept making whistling "oooeeeeoooo" noises whenever there was a call back (to a scenario none of them knew)
GMs can be chaos goblins too.
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@Taskerland I am still learning this stuff and after 35ish years of GMing I hope to one day get it right.
I'm not sure that "choice/allocation" type thing is actually true if your table don't expect it. I mean my old table never assumed anything was "for them" except in a getting equality of face time with the GM. I have zero problem with a dildo salesman ending up on Skaro running around pursued by Daleks. Indeed if anything most of my games are characterised by everyone being the wrong people, trying to solve situations the right people turned out to colonial scum about.
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Reading it has been interesting as there are a lot of assumptions made about context but they're barely stated and aren't supported.
I am intrigued because a) I have never run it before and b) the lack of a properly developed social layer invites re-interpretation.
I feel like, at this point, Keep is almost like a folk or jazz standard. It is there to be adapted and re-worked.
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I'm not sure that "choice/allocation" type thing is actually true if your table don't expect it. I mean my old table never assumed anything was "for them" except in a getting equality of face time with the GM. I have zero problem with a dildo salesman ending up on Skaro running around pursued by Daleks. Indeed if anything most of my games are characterised by everyone being the wrong people, trying to solve situations the right people turned out to colonial scum about.
@Printdevil @Taskerland GMless solved this for me; everyone does the obvious thing or the unexpected thing as they wish on the night
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@Taskerland I am still learning this stuff and after 35ish years of GMing I hope to one day get it right.
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@Printdevil @Taskerland GMless solved this for me; everyone does the obvious thing or the unexpected thing as they wish on the night
"Unexpectedly we played Escape from Colditz"
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@Printdevil @Taskerland GMless solved this for me; everyone does the obvious thing or the unexpected thing as they wish on the night
@sbszine I GM, so no GM = no me. @Printdevil
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@SJohnRoss I think the caves are really interesting as they look to me more like a refugee camp than a lair of evil. I think there are ways to do interesting things with these dynamics.
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@Taskerland Have you Return to Keep on the Borderlands. I had quite good fun running it with a heavy implication of "that wish has gone before" constantly to a group of players who'd never done KotB. It gave it all a totally undeserved gravitas and I kept making whistling "oooeeeeoooo" noises whenever there was a call back (to a scenario none of them knew)
GMs can be chaos goblins too.
@Printdevil There are loads of different remixes now. Which one is Return to the Keep on the Borderlands?
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@SJohnRoss I think the caves are really interesting as they look to me more like a refugee camp than a lair of evil. I think there are ways to do interesting things with these dynamics.
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@SJohnRoss *...he says sceptically* haha
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@SJohnRoss *...he says sceptically* haha
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I am a big advocate of the idea that GMs don't just take responsibility for in-game narratives and smoothing out which mechanics actually get used, they also have social responsibilities.
One area where those responsibilities have bite is that I make concessions to what different players like doing. I like running quite socially dense crime stuff but people in the group love magic, puzzles, and... Dungeons.
@Taskerland I think there's a similar responsibility on the part of players: not to take the piss.
I've been very spoiled by my first and only DM being fantastic, and really going out of his way for us, both in terms of prep, and in accommodating our preferences, quirks, and derailing of things.
But in return, I try to reign myself in when I'm getting too pedantic, or selfish, or doing stuff that is clearly creating lots of work/problems or noclipping to an unreasonable extent
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@SJohnRoss I think the caves are really interesting as they look to me more like a refugee camp than a lair of evil. I think there are ways to do interesting things with these dynamics.
@Taskerland Ha ha, that's an interesting take!
What I enjoy most about the Caves of Chaos is the relationships between groups of humanoids. There are some implied power dynamics, some groups are bullying others, etc. but really it's a blank canvas for the DM.
I have had great fun in the past developing the cult of Evil Chaos. I just like having cultists in my games.
You can also easily drop in your own additional caves. Once I added a Dwarven bathhouse cave inhabited by a demon.
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@Printdevil There are loads of different remixes now. Which one is Return to the Keep on the Borderlands?
@Taskerland 25th Anniversary one, it's quite old now itself. It just has a lot of "nods of the head" to the original scenario which is meant to make it endearing to old soaks like us, but just mystified my group entirely.
it's a jolly little mini campaign too, bit of wilderness, bit of dungeon, bit of classic random encounters. I ran it with some time-travel mirror stuff, so you could enter the original scenario too. Looking back I should have run it the other way round
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@SJohnRoss I think the caves are really interesting as they look to me more like a refugee camp than a lair of evil. I think there are ways to do interesting things with these dynamics.
@Taskerland @SJohnRoss Same. I toyed for a while with running KotB in Owl Hoot Trail (a minimalistic fantasy western RPG published by Pelgrane, if you’re unfamiliar). I had the Caves at the end of an underground railroad for goblinoid slaves; the evil cult was evangelising them to use as sacrifices, and the Keep (a frontier army fort) wanted the escaped slaves out of the way because whilst the nation it was in had banned slavery, the refugees’ presence drew attention to other dubious affairs.
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Reading it has been interesting as there are a lot of assumptions made about context but they're barely stated and aren't supported.
I am intrigued because a) I have never run it before and b) the lack of a properly developed social layer invites re-interpretation.
I feel like, at this point, Keep is almost like a folk or jazz standard. It is there to be adapted and re-worked.
@Taskerland Keep is a GM Rorschach Test ngl
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T Moreau Vazh shared this topic on
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@Taskerland Keep is a GM Rorschach Test ngl
@vortiwife It really is... it reveals a lot about not only your politics and sympathies, but also your interests.
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@vortiwife It really is... it reveals a lot about not only your politics and sympathies, but also your interests.
as a microcosm of gaming "base with plots - wilderness to get to place with plots - place with plots (and subplot)" all in one or two sessions is very hard to beat as an introduction to gaming.
I argue for TAT test - Thematic Apperception Test. Not because as a projective test it's any more valid, but because the art is nice. And you can go "this test is tat" and very very small things amuse me.
