The foxes in my back garden feel safe enough to sleep on their backs - enjoying the sun on their bellies
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@rufustheduck
Same with ours
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@tsadiq @rufustheduck In real life it's more shrill, sometimes almost sounds like an animal being killed. Very unsettling to hear in the wee hours.
@Nazani @tsadiq @rufustheduck even moreso in a tent
ď¸
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@rufustheduck In have read that there is a theory that foxes are in a kind of self domestication process right now and it looks like it to me
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@rufustheduck In have read that there is a theory that foxes are in a kind of self domestication process right now and it looks like it to me
@vronimus_ironimus i can absolutely believe it
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@BackFromTheDud @rufustheduck There is a Russian domesticated fox; the domestic silver fox. It took modern knowledge of genetics, animal husbandry and breeding facility arrangement to pull it off.
Two traits of animals that usually bode poorly for domestication is if they are solitary (because then you can't co-opt any natural instincts for trying to fit into a hierarchy to get the animal to follow orders - and often, solitary animals are also a lot more shy, because they don't have safety in numbers), and if they won't mate if they're confined or being watched. And, well, foxes tick both boxes. Wolves don't, so they were a lot easier for Paleolithic animal breeders to work with.
(Cats apparently self-domesticated. Human settlements attract cat prey and humans like having cats around to kill pests, so cats that tolerated human proximity had a selective advantage over cats that didn't.)
@datarama @BackFromTheDud @rufustheduck I think I read once a piece about how "dogs" in some areas of South America were actually domestic foxes not wolves around time colonizers arrived, but it was found only later from archaeological evidence why they were so different from domestic wolves, and by then the domestic fox line had long been extinct. Just that I read it years ago and can't really remember where!
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@Nazani @tsadiq @rufustheduck even moreso in a tent
ď¸@ryanprior ahah, kinda had the same experience with roe deer, their barking is scary as hell. Foxes weren't the one keeping me awake for hours that night đĽ˛
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@datarama @BackFromTheDud @rufustheduck I think I read once a piece about how "dogs" in some areas of South America were actually domestic foxes not wolves around time colonizers arrived, but it was found only later from archaeological evidence why they were so different from domestic wolves, and by then the domestic fox line had long been extinct. Just that I read it years ago and can't really remember where!
@lepaggoth fascinating!
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@rufustheduck Foxes are part of the dog-like family, so yes, they do.
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@BackFromTheDud @rufustheduck There is a Russian domesticated fox; the domestic silver fox. It took modern knowledge of genetics, animal husbandry and breeding facility arrangement to pull it off.
Two traits of animals that usually bode poorly for domestication is if they are solitary (because then you can't co-opt any natural instincts for trying to fit into a hierarchy to get the animal to follow orders - and often, solitary animals are also a lot more shy, because they don't have safety in numbers), and if they won't mate if they're confined or being watched. And, well, foxes tick both boxes. Wolves don't, so they were a lot easier for Paleolithic animal breeders to work with.
(Cats apparently self-domesticated. Human settlements attract cat prey and humans like having cats around to kill pests, so cats that tolerated human proximity had a selective advantage over cats that didn't.)
@datarama Many years ago (probably 20?) I saw a program on public television about the attempt by Russians to domesticate foxes. My memory is they'd done quite a large number of generations and that it was not very successful.
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@ryanprior ahah, kinda had the same experience with roe deer, their barking is scary as hell. Foxes weren't the one keeping me awake for hours that night đĽ˛
@tsadiq @ryanprior @Nazani @rufustheduck
Wild pigs kept me awake in the tent. I made cough-grunts in reply so they'd be very clear where we were.I'd seen one come down onto the beach during the day and initially thought it was a small cow.
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@datarama @BackFromTheDud @rufustheduck I think I read once a piece about how "dogs" in some areas of South America were actually domestic foxes not wolves around time colonizers arrived, but it was found only later from archaeological evidence why they were so different from domestic wolves, and by then the domestic fox line had long been extinct. Just that I read it years ago and can't really remember where!
@datarama @BackFromTheDud @rufustheduck I had to go digging what was the story and where did I read it, and turns out my memory and imagination had set the domestic foxes back in time, as they apparently were hunted extinct as part of the genocide of people who kept them, as late as 1880's.
The blog post where I first read about them was from 2010's, so I guess ten years is enough to blur even interesting things in memory.
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@datarama @BackFromTheDud @rufustheduck I had to go digging what was the story and where did I read it, and turns out my memory and imagination had set the domestic foxes back in time, as they apparently were hunted extinct as part of the genocide of people who kept them, as late as 1880's.
The blog post where I first read about them was from 2010's, so I guess ten years is enough to blur even interesting things in memory.
@lepaggoth @datarama @BackFromTheDud thank you for finding and sharing this - it was very interesting (and harrowing)
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@BackFromTheDud don't worry - apparently they're in the process of domesticating themselves
@rufustheduck @BackFromTheDud also, apparently they stink (if living indoors)
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@rufustheduck @BackFromTheDud also, apparently they stink (if living indoors)
@AnnieG So do dogs and ferrets. @rufustheduck
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@datarama Many years ago (probably 20?) I saw a program on public television about the attempt by Russians to domesticate foxes. My memory is they'd done quite a large number of generations and that it was not very successful.
@Axomamma actually, I've seen the same program several times. They were not only successful in changing behavior - though they were trying to make it easier to breed foxes for fur, which is terrible - but they found that the non-aggressive behavior they selected for was genetically linked to other traits, so the tamer foxes they got by the 3rd generation also had different coat colors and different vocalization from wild foxes. It was amazing. The coat color changes may have made them less desirable as fur animals, though.
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@AnnieG So do dogs and ferrets. @rufustheduck
My dogs don't stink! They smell like chicken soup. No kidding.
@BackFromTheDud -
@rufustheduck @BackFromTheDud also, apparently they stink (if living indoors)
@AnnieG to be honest, they stink if living outdoors
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@rufustheduck but we rarely get close enough to suffer it
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@rufustheduck but we rarely get close enough to suffer it
@AnnieG our foxes leave presents everywhere to make sure we get the full experience
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@rufustheduck
Foxes: Dog chassis running cat firmware.
