@hans

the vote is controlled by the states

i am not registering my disagreement with you i am registering my disgust with you

if you say the midterms aren't real, people have no reason to vote, therefore MAGA wins

is this what you want?

are you trying to help trump on purpose?

i don't think so

but *you are* helping trump with such ignorant cynical and cowardly words

do not say these lies about the midterms ever again

@jztusk

i don't think anything we could ever say will get them to vote

so therefore we will indeed shame them, so anyone else listening who is not a lazy entitled lump does vote

@benroyce

Well, that's definitely a strategy, and you've thought about what you think will be the most effective, and I've got no evidence that it isn't, so go ahead I guess (not that you need my permission).

Me, I'm going to go ahead with trying to show people it's in their own best interests to vote. Maybe between the two of us we'll cover all the bases?

@jztusk

so let's say you take one of these typical assholes whining loudly about how they won't vote until {X} happens

say everyone bends over backwards and makes {X} happen

they still won't vote. they will invent a new reason not to

this is their identity. making dramatic displays of their "moral superiority" to justify their indolence, entitlement, and alienation

of course, morality without action isn't morality at all, it's just ego masturbation

they're losers. literally: they lose

@benroyce not sure you can actually vote out facism.

@idahobucks

who won the 2020 us presidential election? and who was president at the time?

thank you to everyone who showed up and voted then

you agree?

so get the fuck out of here with your cowardice and premature capitulation

vote, you spineless asshole

if fascism does destroy us democracy, it will be because of MAGA, and meek submissive fear-addled weak whiners like you

@benroyce

Yeah, the ones with a ransom list can just drift away for all I care - they will never accomplish anything, and I'm done wasting my time on them.

But there are still lots of other people who don't vote for other reasons: they're busy, they haven't got the habit, they don't think they can make a difference, despair, etc. And I do not want us speaking shorthand and saying "fuck non-voters" to push any of those away...

@benroyce you are missing the big picture. There is no real push back at all right now. We the people seem to think the Dems will save us which is not the case. We are in the five alarm stage now and people keep talking about voting and laws. The president doesn't worry about laws as he does what he wants like making himself billions of dollars. I have no idea what to do and don't see any real push back. Minnesota pushed back for a while and it's over even though ICE is in the suburbs right now.

@benroyce

... So me, I'm careful in my language. I'm happy to refer to the first type as "pretty prancing purity ponies", or "the folks who didn't vote against the Nazis", but I want to leaves an opening for the second type, and make it clear that they are welcome to join in.

@benroyce

Spent few days at Hungary in Nov 2924 (was swapping trains), and visited a state-sponsored exhibition adjacent to the city museum.

The city museum spent a lot of time talking about how the city population got massacred when the city was captured from Ottomans in the late 17th century.

Then you moved to the state-sponsored exhibition which outright mentioned that the massacre was good, actually, as it allowed large-scale infrastructure improvements.

Felt dirty just for being there.

@idahobucks @benroyce

Sure you can. You just need enough of the population to being committed for the change.

The state apparatus is a complex house of cards, and if people don't support it, it collapses.

People always forget that there's no true absolutist monarchy. The monarch is always supported by special interests, and they in turn by their special interests. If you lose the support of the army, or the railway workers, etc., then it's all over.

@jztusk

Littterer A is shown a video where someone litters out their car window and someone walks up and soothes their precious feelings and otherwise validates their behavior

Litterer B is shown a video where someone litters out their car window and someone walks up and smashes their side mirror while other people cheer

Which will make the litterer think?

Your problem is your false assumption people who don't vote have a valid reason. They don't. They're just entitled lazy assholes

@idahobucks

Do you vote?

If so good

That's what we need. Then we gradually iterate to better

Buy if you don't vote, go fuck yourself. You're the reason as much as MAGA why we are sliding to fascism

All these fucking lazy rationalizations do is serve various weaknesses and character failures that, in aggregate with other whiny losers, leads to fascism

That's it

VOTE

@benroyce

We disagree.

@jztusk of course we do

So you go out there and validate and soothe the precious feelings of lazy entitled assholes and let me know how it goes. Good luck

@benroyce @idahobucks Pauline Hanson would like an explanation please.

The existence/election of Fraser Anning might be a salutary example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Anning

Australia has compulsory voting and a wider "universal" franchise than the US but still manages to elect and give power to utter bastards.

@moz @idahobucks

I don't understand what the point is

We should all vote, right?

PS: is this the guy who got an egg to the face from a teenager?

@iju oof

@benroyce @idahobucks Anning is widely hated, yes. But also voted in.

Assuming that if people who don't vote did they would all vote against fascists isn't a safe assumption. Hungary elected Orban and his government more than once, for example.

Anning is from a nice white English-speaking country so a lot of USA voters find it easier to understand. Plus Australia has compulsory voting and a wider "universal" franchise than the US does.

@jztusk

Right. And the question is what is effective to achieve that

Validating bad behavior doesn't achieve that

We're talking about adults here

The idea that there is someone who goes "well i'm not going to vote because someone was mean on social media" is not a serious proposition