Skip to content
0
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (Sketchy)
  • No Skin
Collapse

Wandering Adventure Party

  1. Home
  2. PC Gaming
  3. BioShock creator says "audiences reward" single-player games that don't have "other methods of monetization," like Baldur's Gate 3, Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2, and Clair Obscur: Expedition 33

BioShock creator says "audiences reward" single-player games that don't have "other methods of monetization," like Baldur's Gate 3, Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2, and Clair Obscur: Expedition 33

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved PC Gaming
pcgaming
87 Posts 70 Posters 4 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • blackmist@feddit.ukB blackmist@feddit.uk

    Thing is, I’ve seen funbucks stuffed into various single player games over the years. The first was probably Mass Effect 3, but some of the Assassin’s Creed games have it too.

    But who are they for? Who buys them? They’ve never really felt like anything that would be useful. It’s usually just some crappy cosmetics, or something you can get through normal play. It’s like they’ve been stuffed in at the request of management, but also like nobody has ever checked up on what they actually put in, or whether anybody bought it…

    D This user is from outside of this forum
    D This user is from outside of this forum
    dustydata@lemmy.world
    wrote on last edited by dustydata@lemmy.world
    #47

    The game industry was assaulted by the MBAs long ago. They have this financial concept of leaving money on the table. That if you aren’t skinning your customers alive for all they have then you are losing money.

    Then there was that infamous power point slide that got leaked where, basically, the plan is to use games to bring in audiences then use gambling techniques to hook on whales then cash them for eternity. Thus “live services games” were born.

    It feels like uncreative, predatory shit because it is. It’s a finance people idea, not a creative game developer idea.

    blackmist@feddit.ukB 1 Reply Last reply
    10
    • J jankatarch@lemmy.world

      Wish granted, but it’s just 30 dlcs each around a full-game price and you gotta wait til they go on sale for $1 once every year at a random time.

      SabataS This user is from outside of this forum
      SabataS This user is from outside of this forum
      Sabata
      wrote on last edited by
      #48

      I wish you were less evil.

      1 Reply Last reply
      3
      • adr1anA adr1an

        Sounds like my experiences with Ultima Online. Right before they added paladins and necromancers, the shard where I played was quite “raw”. You really got the human experience, with everything: misery, dignity, psycopaths, etc.

        X This user is from outside of this forum
        X This user is from outside of this forum
        xabis@lemmy.world
        wrote on last edited by
        #49

        And honestly I think that’s what’s missing in “modern” mmos: the human element. Or rather the social one. Which is ironic.

        They are now way too friendly towards solo play and systems like ff14s duty finder removed the social aspect by automating group comp with complete randos that you will probably never see again since it was cross server.

        In evercrack and even ffxi you were required to shout for groups from a pool of players on your own server so you got to know people. Who was good and who was not so good. You built a reputation.

        It was a lot harder for sure, but it felt more meaningful.

        1 Reply Last reply
        2
        • D dustydata@lemmy.world

          The game industry was assaulted by the MBAs long ago. They have this financial concept of leaving money on the table. That if you aren’t skinning your customers alive for all they have then you are losing money.

          Then there was that infamous power point slide that got leaked where, basically, the plan is to use games to bring in audiences then use gambling techniques to hook on whales then cash them for eternity. Thus “live services games” were born.

          It feels like uncreative, predatory shit because it is. It’s a finance people idea, not a creative game developer idea.

          blackmist@feddit.ukB This user is from outside of this forum
          blackmist@feddit.ukB This user is from outside of this forum
          blackmist@feddit.uk
          wrote on last edited by
          #50

          I think the last few years has left them struggling with the reality that landlords and supermarkets also have that concept, and when it’s a choice between having a roof, food, or entertainment, then they’re way down the list.

          1 Reply Last reply
          6
          • blackmist@feddit.ukB blackmist@feddit.uk

            Thing is, I’ve seen funbucks stuffed into various single player games over the years. The first was probably Mass Effect 3, but some of the Assassin’s Creed games have it too.

            But who are they for? Who buys them? They’ve never really felt like anything that would be useful. It’s usually just some crappy cosmetics, or something you can get through normal play. It’s like they’ve been stuffed in at the request of management, but also like nobody has ever checked up on what they actually put in, or whether anybody bought it…

            twisterpop3@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
            twisterpop3@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
            twisterpop3@lemmy.world
            wrote on last edited by
            #51

            Who buys them?

            Play Nice by Jason Schreier mentions that the “Pay to Win” style of monetization is very popular in Chinese markets.

            I’d wager that, since other markets strongly oppose that, public companies focused on profits over player sentiment needed to find a middle ground. (That dichotomy is the main focus of the last half of the book)

            We revolted when Battlefront 2 had loot boxes at the center of game progression, so companies hoping to make the most money in both markets need to make the purchasable items either purely cosmetic or only helpful in early game progression (starter packs).

            1 Reply Last reply
            1
            • blackmist@feddit.ukB blackmist@feddit.uk

              Thing is, I’ve seen funbucks stuffed into various single player games over the years. The first was probably Mass Effect 3, but some of the Assassin’s Creed games have it too.

              But who are they for? Who buys them? They’ve never really felt like anything that would be useful. It’s usually just some crappy cosmetics, or something you can get through normal play. It’s like they’ve been stuffed in at the request of management, but also like nobody has ever checked up on what they actually put in, or whether anybody bought it…

              S This user is from outside of this forum
              S This user is from outside of this forum
              saigot@lemmy.ca
              wrote on last edited by
              #52

              Who buys them?

              • People who dont game buying a present who just go “oh deluxe version, not that much more expensive, lets treat them”
              • wealthy people that just pick the priciest option
              • people with completitionist tendencies
              • streamers and wannabe streamers for whom the extra cost is a trivial operating expense
              • children and others that dont understand the value of a dollar
              • people whose primary draw to the game is the photomode
              • “i like game, I want more game therefore I pay more” (yes this logic is terrible when applied to microtransactions)
              S 1 Reply Last reply
              14
              • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                This post did not contain any content.
                S This user is from outside of this forum
                S This user is from outside of this forum
                saigot@lemmy.ca
                wrote on last edited by saigot@lemmy.ca
                #53

                I love the game, but I’d like to point out that baldur’s gate 3 does have a single microtransaction, it gives you a custom dice skin, a tie in item from divinity original sin and a bunch of low level potions. It costs 12CAD.

                T 1 Reply Last reply
                9
                • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                  This post did not contain any content.
                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                  rozodru@lemmy.world
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #54

                  I started playing warframe recently. Yes it’s free to play, yes there’s monetization, but I feel it’s one of those games you really don’t need to buy anything for. you can pretty much obtain everything via grinding. I can see how that wouldn’t appeal to a lot of people today but I used to play everquest and anarchy online etc so I know about the grind and I don’t mind it.

                  M 1 Reply Last reply
                  8
                  • M mog_fanatic@lemmy.world

                    I appreciate the sentiment but the (very shitty) reality is single player games don’t come any where near the profitability of these multiplayer games in the current climate. Like no where even remotely close in terms of effort to profit. You can straight up clone call of duty every year, or add a few maps to fortnite, or add a new operator to siege, and monetize every tiny fraction of the game thru micro transactions and people will keep on playing and keep on paying.

                    Single player games operate pretty much the opposite. You buy it once. Play thru it. Beat it. And generally never touch it again unless maybe some dlc comes out and you might add a few more hours to it and then never think about it again.

                    I say this as a giant fan of single narrative games, it’s just a much smarter business move to pump out shitty online multiplayer games.

                    Fortnite was released in 2017, last year it netted almost $6 billion.

                    Call of duty has been dog water for like a decade. Its been the best selling game every single year since 2009 unless Rockstar releases a game (and Hogwarts legacy randomly dominating one year).

                    World of Warcraft came out in 2004. Last year they announced they had over 7 million active subscribers… Over two decades later.

                    Apex legends came out in 2019, last year it made over $3 billion.

                    The list goes on and on and on. You just can’t compete with weirdos obsessed with showing off a wizard hat on their character in an online game or busting open a loot box to get a new weapon skin or something.

                    A This user is from outside of this forum
                    A This user is from outside of this forum
                    azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #55

                    Reading the article, where did you get “audience rewards” == “maximal extraction of cash from the audience”?

                    IMO having a very profitable game that will comfortably fund your studio for the next 5-10 years AND that has universal critical acclaim and a devoted fanbase is reward enough. You didn’t lose because you didn’t make the most money out of all your competitors.

                    Different games have different audiences. Some people want arcade slop and slot machines to play with friends, they were never going to play BG3 or E33 anyway.

                    Important to the conversation as well is the fact that plenty of live-service games have recently failed spectacularly. Remember Concord? Within the industry, that is a clear signal that very high budget online slop isn’t as risk-free as previously assumed, which makes ambitious narrative-driven single player games an interesting diversification strategy for studios.

                    It’s not either or. Executives could spend 100M€ on “nearly guaranteed” online slop, or 80M€ on online slop and 20M€ on a good narrative game. And the critical and commercial success of games like BG3 and E33 are definitely moving the needle.
                    Especially when micro-economically, there are diminish returns when scaling dev teams. It’s kind of obvious but the first million euros does a lot more for a project than the 100th million. That further strengthens the case for a move away for big players from ONLY funding live-service slop.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    4
                    • S saigot@lemmy.ca

                      Who buys them?

                      • People who dont game buying a present who just go “oh deluxe version, not that much more expensive, lets treat them”
                      • wealthy people that just pick the priciest option
                      • people with completitionist tendencies
                      • streamers and wannabe streamers for whom the extra cost is a trivial operating expense
                      • children and others that dont understand the value of a dollar
                      • people whose primary draw to the game is the photomode
                      • “i like game, I want more game therefore I pay more” (yes this logic is terrible when applied to microtransactions)
                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                      slightlyincandescent@lemmy.world
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #56

                      The type of monetisation that especially confuses me as a guy brought up on pre-internet era gaming is any kind of pay to win. You’re buying a game then paying extra money so you don’t have to then go through the tedious task of actually playing the game.

                      W blackmist@feddit.ukB B 3 Replies Last reply
                      8
                      • R rozodru@lemmy.world

                        I started playing warframe recently. Yes it’s free to play, yes there’s monetization, but I feel it’s one of those games you really don’t need to buy anything for. you can pretty much obtain everything via grinding. I can see how that wouldn’t appeal to a lot of people today but I used to play everquest and anarchy online etc so I know about the grind and I don’t mind it.

                        M This user is from outside of this forum
                        M This user is from outside of this forum
                        maalus@lemmy.world
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #57

                        The thing about Warframe is it tempts you but doesn’t force you to buy. You can sell your time to people who paid actual money, and then buy things you want for that money. The only issue with Warframe is the fomo - them locking warframes behind relics that are “deprecated”. Sometimes they unearth them again, but it’s an artificial attempt at “I need to buy this or it is gone”.

                        Also the process of getting parts is 100% gambling on low odds. You can get lucky immediately or have to “reroll” by running the same relic over and over and over again. It sucks if you want a very specific thing and often leads to people just buying it outright.

                        manticore@lemmy.nzM P 2 Replies Last reply
                        7
                        • S supernight52@lemmy.world

                          This describes just about all Paradox games made in the past 15 years, sadly. They release with a barebones concept, then slowly drip-feed content for 5-30 bucks a pop, each one usually sitting at “Mostly Negative” because it doesn’t fundamentally add or change anything most of the time, and the times it does- meh. Crusader Kings 2 was my bread and butter for a long time. Played Crusader Kings 3, and it felt like almost every helpful mechanic that existed in CK2 was stripped, and then added on again over the course of years. It was so infuriating, that I just don’t buy their titles anymore.

                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                          sorryquick@lemmy.ca
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #58

                          It really sucks cause their gamea are really good too and nobody else makes anything like that, so we’re stuck dealing with paradox’s crap. Same story with the total war games.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          2
                          • M maalus@lemmy.world

                            The thing about Warframe is it tempts you but doesn’t force you to buy. You can sell your time to people who paid actual money, and then buy things you want for that money. The only issue with Warframe is the fomo - them locking warframes behind relics that are “deprecated”. Sometimes they unearth them again, but it’s an artificial attempt at “I need to buy this or it is gone”.

                            Also the process of getting parts is 100% gambling on low odds. You can get lucky immediately or have to “reroll” by running the same relic over and over and over again. It sucks if you want a very specific thing and often leads to people just buying it outright.

                            manticore@lemmy.nzM This user is from outside of this forum
                            manticore@lemmy.nzM This user is from outside of this forum
                            manticore@lemmy.nz
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #59

                            The community is very open about warframe.market existing though. Like an auction house for player trading across all servers. So if your relics drop bad items. Sell them on the market until you can eventually buy the one you want.

                            Other games do thinks like soulbound/account bound stuff. Not everything in WF is tradable, but most things are

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            6
                            • S saigot@lemmy.ca

                              I love the game, but I’d like to point out that baldur’s gate 3 does have a single microtransaction, it gives you a custom dice skin, a tie in item from divinity original sin and a bunch of low level potions. It costs 12CAD.

                              T This user is from outside of this forum
                              T This user is from outside of this forum
                              the_ferry@lemmy.world
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #60

                              I will point out that this is mainly just a way to get the free preorder bonus though, and has no real gameplay effects. The dlc also contains a digital artbook, digital soundtrack and some character sheets. I feel like that is quite a bit more than the normal micro transactions, though I still somewhat see your point

                              D 1 Reply Last reply
                              9
                              • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                                This post did not contain any content.
                                steal_your_face@lemmy.mlS This user is from outside of this forum
                                steal_your_face@lemmy.mlS This user is from outside of this forum
                                steal_your_face@lemmy.ml
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #61

                                Nice, now release Judas 😠

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                5
                                • J jankatarch@lemmy.world

                                  Wish granted, but it’s just 30 dlcs each around a full-game price and you gotta wait til they go on sale for $1 once every year at a random time.

                                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                                  sexual_tomato@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #62

                                  So, I’ve got steam wishlist items going into the third grade this year. I can wait.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  2
                                  • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                                    This post did not contain any content.
                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    slartybartfast@sh.itjust.works
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #63

                                    He’s right

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    16
                                    • S slightlyincandescent@lemmy.world

                                      The type of monetisation that especially confuses me as a guy brought up on pre-internet era gaming is any kind of pay to win. You’re buying a game then paying extra money so you don’t have to then go through the tedious task of actually playing the game.

                                      W This user is from outside of this forum
                                      W This user is from outside of this forum
                                      wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works
                                      wrote on last edited by wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works
                                      #64

                                      The same thing has always confused me about CCGs. Why spend hundreds of dollars to be able to play them at all, when you can just get Dominion and know that the game is both fair and varied?

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      • yardratiansoma@lemmy.caY yardratiansoma@lemmy.ca

                                        At the very least, you can still pirate it and play cracked multiplayer with friends.

                                        I made the mistake of buying the game year ago, and bought a bunch of DLC at 50% or greater sales, and now the sunken cost fallacy has taken hold on me, and I still want to buy more . . . . (at least I’m broke so I can’t right now hehehaha)

                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        sciaphobia@sh.itjust.works
                                        wrote on last edited by sciaphobia@sh.itjust.works
                                        #65

                                        The game files are already downloaded in the steam version at least. One could, hypothetically, unlock those dlcs even on a normal copy. Steam would have no way too detect that either. Supposedly. In Minecraft.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • T the_ferry@lemmy.world

                                          I will point out that this is mainly just a way to get the free preorder bonus though, and has no real gameplay effects. The dlc also contains a digital artbook, digital soundtrack and some character sheets. I feel like that is quite a bit more than the normal micro transactions, though I still somewhat see your point

                                          D This user is from outside of this forum
                                          D This user is from outside of this forum
                                          dafta@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #66

                                          Let’s not forget about the two extra bard songs, which was the only reason I got it lol.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          4

                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          Powered by NodeBB Contributors
                                          • First post
                                            Last post