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  3. BioShock creator says "audiences reward" single-player games that don't have "other methods of monetization," like Baldur's Gate 3, Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2, and Clair Obscur: Expedition 33

BioShock creator says "audiences reward" single-player games that don't have "other methods of monetization," like Baldur's Gate 3, Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2, and Clair Obscur: Expedition 33

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  • blackmist@feddit.ukB blackmist@feddit.uk

    Thing is, I’ve seen funbucks stuffed into various single player games over the years. The first was probably Mass Effect 3, but some of the Assassin’s Creed games have it too.

    But who are they for? Who buys them? They’ve never really felt like anything that would be useful. It’s usually just some crappy cosmetics, or something you can get through normal play. It’s like they’ve been stuffed in at the request of management, but also like nobody has ever checked up on what they actually put in, or whether anybody bought it…

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    saigot@lemmy.ca
    wrote on last edited by
    #52

    Who buys them?

    • People who dont game buying a present who just go ā€œoh deluxe version, not that much more expensive, lets treat themā€
    • wealthy people that just pick the priciest option
    • people with completitionist tendencies
    • streamers and wannabe streamers for whom the extra cost is a trivial operating expense
    • children and others that dont understand the value of a dollar
    • people whose primary draw to the game is the photomode
    • ā€œi like game, I want more game therefore I pay moreā€ (yes this logic is terrible when applied to microtransactions)
    S 1 Reply Last reply
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    • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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      saigot@lemmy.ca
      wrote on last edited by saigot@lemmy.ca
      #53

      I love the game, but I’d like to point out that baldur’s gate 3 does have a single microtransaction, it gives you a custom dice skin, a tie in item from divinity original sin and a bunch of low level potions. It costs 12CAD.

      T 1 Reply Last reply
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      • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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        rozodru@lemmy.world
        wrote on last edited by
        #54

        I started playing warframe recently. Yes it’s free to play, yes there’s monetization, but I feel it’s one of those games you really don’t need to buy anything for. you can pretty much obtain everything via grinding. I can see how that wouldn’t appeal to a lot of people today but I used to play everquest and anarchy online etc so I know about the grind and I don’t mind it.

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        • M mog_fanatic@lemmy.world

          I appreciate the sentiment but the (very shitty) reality is single player games don’t come any where near the profitability of these multiplayer games in the current climate. Like no where even remotely close in terms of effort to profit. You can straight up clone call of duty every year, or add a few maps to fortnite, or add a new operator to siege, and monetize every tiny fraction of the game thru micro transactions and people will keep on playing and keep on paying.

          Single player games operate pretty much the opposite. You buy it once. Play thru it. Beat it. And generally never touch it again unless maybe some dlc comes out and you might add a few more hours to it and then never think about it again.

          I say this as a giant fan of single narrative games, it’s just a much smarter business move to pump out shitty online multiplayer games.

          Fortnite was released in 2017, last year it netted almost $6 billion.

          Call of duty has been dog water for like a decade. Its been the best selling game every single year since 2009 unless Rockstar releases a game (and Hogwarts legacy randomly dominating one year).

          World of Warcraft came out in 2004. Last year they announced they had over 7 million active subscribers… Over two decades later.

          Apex legends came out in 2019, last year it made over $3 billion.

          The list goes on and on and on. You just can’t compete with weirdos obsessed with showing off a wizard hat on their character in an online game or busting open a loot box to get a new weapon skin or something.

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          azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
          wrote on last edited by
          #55

          Reading the article, where did you get ā€œaudience rewardsā€ == ā€œmaximal extraction of cash from the audienceā€?

          IMO having a very profitable game that will comfortably fund your studio for the next 5-10 years AND that has universal critical acclaim and a devoted fanbase is reward enough. You didn’t lose because you didn’t make the most money out of all your competitors.

          Different games have different audiences. Some people want arcade slop and slot machines to play with friends, they were never going to play BG3 or E33 anyway.

          Important to the conversation as well is the fact that plenty of live-service games have recently failed spectacularly. Remember Concord? Within the industry, that is a clear signal that very high budget online slop isn’t as risk-free as previously assumed, which makes ambitious narrative-driven single player games an interesting diversification strategy for studios.

          It’s not either or. Executives could spend 100M€ on ā€œnearly guaranteedā€ online slop, or 80M€ on online slop and 20M€ on a good narrative game. And the critical and commercial success of games like BG3 and E33 are definitely moving the needle.
          Especially when micro-economically, there are diminish returns when scaling dev teams. It’s kind of obvious but the first million euros does a lot more for a project than the 100th million. That further strengthens the case for a move away for big players from ONLY funding live-service slop.

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          • S saigot@lemmy.ca

            Who buys them?

            • People who dont game buying a present who just go ā€œoh deluxe version, not that much more expensive, lets treat themā€
            • wealthy people that just pick the priciest option
            • people with completitionist tendencies
            • streamers and wannabe streamers for whom the extra cost is a trivial operating expense
            • children and others that dont understand the value of a dollar
            • people whose primary draw to the game is the photomode
            • ā€œi like game, I want more game therefore I pay moreā€ (yes this logic is terrible when applied to microtransactions)
            S This user is from outside of this forum
            S This user is from outside of this forum
            slightlyincandescent@lemmy.world
            wrote on last edited by
            #56

            The type of monetisation that especially confuses me as a guy brought up on pre-internet era gaming is any kind of pay to win. You’re buying a game then paying extra money so you don’t have to then go through the tedious task of actually playing the game.

            W blackmist@feddit.ukB B 3 Replies Last reply
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            • R rozodru@lemmy.world

              I started playing warframe recently. Yes it’s free to play, yes there’s monetization, but I feel it’s one of those games you really don’t need to buy anything for. you can pretty much obtain everything via grinding. I can see how that wouldn’t appeal to a lot of people today but I used to play everquest and anarchy online etc so I know about the grind and I don’t mind it.

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              maalus@lemmy.world
              wrote on last edited by
              #57

              The thing about Warframe is it tempts you but doesn’t force you to buy. You can sell your time to people who paid actual money, and then buy things you want for that money. The only issue with Warframe is the fomo - them locking warframes behind relics that are ā€œdeprecatedā€. Sometimes they unearth them again, but it’s an artificial attempt at ā€œI need to buy this or it is goneā€.

              Also the process of getting parts is 100% gambling on low odds. You can get lucky immediately or have to ā€œrerollā€ by running the same relic over and over and over again. It sucks if you want a very specific thing and often leads to people just buying it outright.

              manticore@lemmy.nzM P 2 Replies Last reply
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              • S supernight52@lemmy.world

                This describes just about all Paradox games made in the past 15 years, sadly. They release with a barebones concept, then slowly drip-feed content for 5-30 bucks a pop, each one usually sitting at ā€œMostly Negativeā€ because it doesn’t fundamentally add or change anything most of the time, and the times it does- meh. Crusader Kings 2 was my bread and butter for a long time. Played Crusader Kings 3, and it felt like almost every helpful mechanic that existed in CK2 was stripped, and then added on again over the course of years. It was so infuriating, that I just don’t buy their titles anymore.

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                sorryquick@lemmy.ca
                wrote on last edited by
                #58

                It really sucks cause their gamea are really good too and nobody else makes anything like that, so we’re stuck dealing with paradox’s crap. Same story with the total war games.

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                • M maalus@lemmy.world

                  The thing about Warframe is it tempts you but doesn’t force you to buy. You can sell your time to people who paid actual money, and then buy things you want for that money. The only issue with Warframe is the fomo - them locking warframes behind relics that are ā€œdeprecatedā€. Sometimes they unearth them again, but it’s an artificial attempt at ā€œI need to buy this or it is goneā€.

                  Also the process of getting parts is 100% gambling on low odds. You can get lucky immediately or have to ā€œrerollā€ by running the same relic over and over and over again. It sucks if you want a very specific thing and often leads to people just buying it outright.

                  manticore@lemmy.nzM This user is from outside of this forum
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                  manticore@lemmy.nz
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #59

                  The community is very open about warframe.market existing though. Like an auction house for player trading across all servers. So if your relics drop bad items. Sell them on the market until you can eventually buy the one you want.

                  Other games do thinks like soulbound/account bound stuff. Not everything in WF is tradable, but most things are

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                  • S saigot@lemmy.ca

                    I love the game, but I’d like to point out that baldur’s gate 3 does have a single microtransaction, it gives you a custom dice skin, a tie in item from divinity original sin and a bunch of low level potions. It costs 12CAD.

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                    the_ferry@lemmy.world
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #60

                    I will point out that this is mainly just a way to get the free preorder bonus though, and has no real gameplay effects. The dlc also contains a digital artbook, digital soundtrack and some character sheets. I feel like that is quite a bit more than the normal micro transactions, though I still somewhat see your point

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                    • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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                      steal_your_face@lemmy.ml
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #61

                      Nice, now release Judas 😠

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • J jankatarch@lemmy.world

                        Wish granted, but it’s just 30 dlcs each around a full-game price and you gotta wait til they go on sale for $1 once every year at a random time.

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                        sexual_tomato@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #62

                        So, I’ve got steam wishlist items going into the third grade this year. I can wait.

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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                          slartybartfast@sh.itjust.works
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #63

                          He’s right

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                          • S slightlyincandescent@lemmy.world

                            The type of monetisation that especially confuses me as a guy brought up on pre-internet era gaming is any kind of pay to win. You’re buying a game then paying extra money so you don’t have to then go through the tedious task of actually playing the game.

                            W This user is from outside of this forum
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                            wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works
                            wrote on last edited by wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works
                            #64

                            The same thing has always confused me about CCGs. Why spend hundreds of dollars to be able to play them at all, when you can just get Dominion and know that the game is both fair and varied?

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • yardratiansoma@lemmy.caY yardratiansoma@lemmy.ca

                              At the very least, you can still pirate it and play cracked multiplayer with friends.

                              I made the mistake of buying the game year ago, and bought a bunch of DLC at 50% or greater sales, and now the sunken cost fallacy has taken hold on me, and I still want to buy more . . . . (at least I’m broke so I can’t right now hehehaha)

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                              sciaphobia@sh.itjust.works
                              wrote on last edited by sciaphobia@sh.itjust.works
                              #65

                              The game files are already downloaded in the steam version at least. One could, hypothetically, unlock those dlcs even on a normal copy. Steam would have no way too detect that either. Supposedly. In Minecraft.

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                              • T the_ferry@lemmy.world

                                I will point out that this is mainly just a way to get the free preorder bonus though, and has no real gameplay effects. The dlc also contains a digital artbook, digital soundtrack and some character sheets. I feel like that is quite a bit more than the normal micro transactions, though I still somewhat see your point

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                                dafta@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #66

                                Let’s not forget about the two extra bard songs, which was the only reason I got it lol.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                4
                                • steve@communick.newsS steve@communick.news

                                  I miss EverCrack.
                                  Not the actual mechanics, things have come a long way since then. But the concepts. No end game. Mobs that take 100+ people all day to take down. And that last piece of armor you want, has a 2% drop rate off them. And even when it does drop, there are 10 of your class who wants it, and you have to work out who gets it. Levels took so long nobody worried about getting to cap, and just hung out. The grind and the community were the point. Not the next piece of gear.

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                                  kingpoiuy@lemmy.world
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #67

                                  Every few years I fire up project99 and it’s glorious. I’ve been resisting simply because I want to get real life stuff done.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  1
                                  • M maalus@lemmy.world

                                    The thing about Warframe is it tempts you but doesn’t force you to buy. You can sell your time to people who paid actual money, and then buy things you want for that money. The only issue with Warframe is the fomo - them locking warframes behind relics that are ā€œdeprecatedā€. Sometimes they unearth them again, but it’s an artificial attempt at ā€œI need to buy this or it is goneā€.

                                    Also the process of getting parts is 100% gambling on low odds. You can get lucky immediately or have to ā€œrerollā€ by running the same relic over and over and over again. It sucks if you want a very specific thing and often leads to people just buying it outright.

                                    P This user is from outside of this forum
                                    P This user is from outside of this forum
                                    paddzr@lemmy.world
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #68

                                    There is very little FOMO in warframe. The unsealing you speak of is a rotation due to the game having over a thousand of things to unlock so farming specific weapon part when you need 5 parts would be very difficult. It’s there to limit the pool. If you want something specific? That’s what trade is for.

                                    Relic system is quite fair but you do need to somewhat understand the full system to see it.

                                    The one thing that WF does fairly annoyingly are weapon slots. You have to buy them off the market with platinum so either you buy it at 75% discount or trade prime parts to get it. A single gold part will be worth more than the 2 weapon slot but it’s the one example that makes you ā€œspend moneyā€.

                                    I’m playing since closed beta and have thousands of hours, got my wife and son into it. I must’ve spent maybe Ā£300 in total (maybe more) to show my support, but I could’ve easily just done trading and bought all the cosmetics I wanted that way too.

                                    WF makes you spend money on things you want to, not need to. No bullshit paid for battle pass or battle pass paid for skips etc.

                                    M 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • E evotech@lemmy.world

                                      Gamers reward good games

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                                      paddzr@lemmy.world
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #69

                                      Exactly. You make good MMORPG and money will come in droves too. Same for RPG or fuck it, even poker game on crack. Just make good games, but it’s not as easy as it sounds… No one just clicks ā€œmake game badā€ and often the Microtransactions are dictated by whatever publishing deal they have.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • bdonvr@thelemmy.clubB bdonvr@thelemmy.club

                                        I think it’s a bit more nuanced - for example MMOs. But for the most part yeah.

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                                        flames5123@sh.itjust.works
                                        wrote on last edited by flames5123@sh.itjust.works
                                        #70

                                        Exactly. With my FFXIV subscription, I’m storing actual data that can be accessed any time (houses/rooms/apartments), and they provide quarterly updates and events.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • P paddzr@lemmy.world

                                          There is very little FOMO in warframe. The unsealing you speak of is a rotation due to the game having over a thousand of things to unlock so farming specific weapon part when you need 5 parts would be very difficult. It’s there to limit the pool. If you want something specific? That’s what trade is for.

                                          Relic system is quite fair but you do need to somewhat understand the full system to see it.

                                          The one thing that WF does fairly annoyingly are weapon slots. You have to buy them off the market with platinum so either you buy it at 75% discount or trade prime parts to get it. A single gold part will be worth more than the 2 weapon slot but it’s the one example that makes you ā€œspend moneyā€.

                                          I’m playing since closed beta and have thousands of hours, got my wife and son into it. I must’ve spent maybe Ā£300 in total (maybe more) to show my support, but I could’ve easily just done trading and bought all the cosmetics I wanted that way too.

                                          WF makes you spend money on things you want to, not need to. No bullshit paid for battle pass or battle pass paid for skips etc.

                                          M This user is from outside of this forum
                                          M This user is from outside of this forum
                                          maalus@lemmy.world
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #71

                                          Sealing / unsealing is 100% FOMO and I have seen people go ā€œIvara Prime is out now I need to play Warframeā€. You can easily setup a system where you choose a rotation to go for when choosing a mission. It wouldn’t even split the playerbase since it only affects the rewards at the end. But they don’t, they do this song and dance about removing and bringing back specific weapons and warframes.

                                          P manticore@lemmy.nzM 2 Replies Last reply
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