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  3. Epic CEO [Tim Sweeney] says AI disclosures like Steam's make "no sense" because AI will be involved in "nearly all" future game development

Epic CEO [Tim Sweeney] says AI disclosures like Steam's make "no sense" because AI will be involved in "nearly all" future game development

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved PC Gaming
pcgaming
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  • S spacescotsman@startrek.website

    Sugars and additives are in nearly all foods, maybe we should stop asking manufacturers to disclose it on the ingredients list.

    M This user is from outside of this forum
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    monkeyslikebananas2@lemmy.world
    wrote on last edited by
    #99

    Waste of ink really

    S 1 Reply Last reply
    12
    • B bcsven@lemmy.ca

      I have seen handmade tags, for stuff that wasn’t machine loomed, etc. But handmade clothing is mostly dead in the consumer world, unless you class mass production methods as handmade… Which they are made by hands in some stage

      nuko147@lemmy.worldN This user is from outside of this forum
      nuko147@lemmy.worldN This user is from outside of this forum
      nuko147@lemmy.world
      wrote on last edited by
      #100

      Handmade clothes may be not the norm but they are not extinct. Dresses, scarfs and accesorising can be found handmade. Luxury market is in majority handmade.

      The point is that the label is not pointless. It exist and will exist in the future. I just hope that games with human art won’t be considered a luxury.

      B 1 Reply Last reply
      3
      • W who

        PC gamers (sample size: at least 1) say they struggle to think of anything valuable that Tim Sweeney has ever said.

        V This user is from outside of this forum
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        verdi@feddit.org
        wrote on last edited by
        #101

        App Store policies from Apple and Google are unacceptable. That’s Sweeney. Broken clock right twice a day and all.

        1 Reply Last reply
        2
        • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
          This post did not contain any content.
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          rampantparanoia2365@lemmy.world
          wrote on last edited by
          #102

          “Will” is still a future tense word, right? As in “later, not now”

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • S sabinstargem@lemmy.today

            I like AI, and see no issue with disclosing how it is applied. People who are pro-AI would like to further hone their craft, by understanding what workflows and issues are involved. Anti-AI folk can simply avoid what they dislike. Either way, it is win-win.

            S This user is from outside of this forum
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            snugglesthefalse@sh.itjust.works
            wrote on last edited by
            #103

            The main problem I have besides the ethics is that people keep trying to pass off substandard art as non-ai when it still just looks worse.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • C cashsky@sh.itjust.works

              Except every tool used for development is going to have some level of AI in it and unless you are also building your own AI free tool you aren’t going to know what’s truly AI free. AI is here and the cat’s out of the bag. There is no putting it back in at this point. We as a society need to figure out how to use it ethically.

              C This user is from outside of this forum
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              cashsky@sh.itjust.works
              wrote on last edited by
              #104

              As if down voting me is going to make the AI problem go away. Lemmy baffles me. People on here are the most pro FOSS but luddites at the same time when it comes to AI.

              There is no going back from anyone this. We are gonna have to figure out how to live with the consequences of AI. We should be making a lot more noise about AI to law makers. It’s coming for all of our jobs now matter what sector you work in. At some point people are going to have to accept it and make the best of it.

              S 1 Reply Last reply
              2
              • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                This post did not contain any content.
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                jacksilver@lemmy.world
                wrote on last edited by
                #105

                I mean he’s not wrong, it’s like saying we’re going to have a flag for whether the game uses stock/bought assets or like saying whether an animated movie uses cgi.

                The real issue is that many are using AI poorly, but as developers become more familiar with the tools and work them more seamlessly into their workflow, it can be beneficial.

                1 Reply Last reply
                6
                • H hadriscus@jlai.lu

                  yea that’s just playing on semantics. Of course machine learning will keep assisting many different workflows, thank you Tim.
                  Go ahead with your ML-assisted procedural animations, your ML-enhanced denoising, your ML-powered stochastic mesh pruning.

                  What people don’t want is generated visuals/music that try and pass off as art. I’d love to summon debility to explain that the ruling class doesn’t get it, but they do -it’s a convenient way for them to save on human labor that is also… just too tempting to use for replacing art as well.

                  T This user is from outside of this forum
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                  tgcoldrockn@lemmy.world
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #106

                  “it’s a convenient way for them to-” insert: exploit all culture, our past and present artists, writers, musicians, etc. . . The offense is utterly incomprehensible. Its like the billion dollar relativity thingy, where you just can’t get over the relative size of the comparison to $100,000. The amount of data stolen from past and current IP is too much for the layman to ever consider. It’s the heist of the epoch.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                    This post did not contain any content.
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                    chunes@lemmy.world
                    wrote on last edited by chunes@lemmy.world
                    #107

                    Never thought I’d agree with Tim Sweeney on anything.

                    John Carmack has a good take on AI in game dev too.

                    R 1 Reply Last reply
                    2
                    • H hadriscus@jlai.lu

                      yea that’s just playing on semantics. Of course machine learning will keep assisting many different workflows, thank you Tim.
                      Go ahead with your ML-assisted procedural animations, your ML-enhanced denoising, your ML-powered stochastic mesh pruning.

                      What people don’t want is generated visuals/music that try and pass off as art. I’d love to summon debility to explain that the ruling class doesn’t get it, but they do -it’s a convenient way for them to save on human labor that is also… just too tempting to use for replacing art as well.

                      1 This user is from outside of this forum
                      1 This user is from outside of this forum
                      1rre@discuss.tchncs.de
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #108

                      AI generated visuals and music are one thing, but one use of AI in that category is giving NPCs actually interesting things to say.

                      Currently, without AI, they have one or two lines about the weather, or the general state of affairs, but if you can pass an LLM the current state of the world and the player’s recent actions, then run the output through a tts model tuned to a distinct voice to, you’d be making the world feel way deeper than it is now with much more insightful interactions. You could maybe go even further and add infinite mini-quests in a similar manner, but it’s better to start off small.

                      AI doesn’t have to replace, and the best studios will use it to enhance and add to their art, the average ones will avoid it, and the worst ones will use it to replace art.

                      B 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                        This post did not contain any content.
                        iontempted@lemmynsfw.comI This user is from outside of this forum
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                        iontempted@lemmynsfw.com
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #109

                        I’ve said this before that typically people don’t know what they are talking about AI, but I don’t expect this from people who SHOULD know what AI is.

                        There could be technologies that AI can assist with, hell I’m not a game dev but I assume even back in the day, devs used tricks and technologies that today could be considered as AI

                        However AI as in it will write you code, generate you a game and write you a story? Hell no.

                        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
                        6
                        • nuko147@lemmy.worldN nuko147@lemmy.world

                          Handmade clothes may be not the norm but they are not extinct. Dresses, scarfs and accesorising can be found handmade. Luxury market is in majority handmade.

                          The point is that the label is not pointless. It exist and will exist in the future. I just hope that games with human art won’t be considered a luxury.

                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                          bcsven@lemmy.ca
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #110

                          I think a lot of what was art will die, you have logo generators and random people image generators that used to be done by a graphic artist, or a photgrapher.

                          Link Preview Image
                          ThisPersonDoesNotExist - Random AI Generated Photos of Fake Persons

                          Generate random human face in 1 click and download it! AI generated fake person photos: man, woman or child.

                          favicon

                          (this-person-does-not-exist.com)

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          1
                          • C cashsky@sh.itjust.works

                            As if down voting me is going to make the AI problem go away. Lemmy baffles me. People on here are the most pro FOSS but luddites at the same time when it comes to AI.

                            There is no going back from anyone this. We are gonna have to figure out how to live with the consequences of AI. We should be making a lot more noise about AI to law makers. It’s coming for all of our jobs now matter what sector you work in. At some point people are going to have to accept it and make the best of it.

                            S This user is from outside of this forum
                            S This user is from outside of this forum
                            strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #111

                            People on here are the most pro FOSS but luddites at the same time when it comes to AI.

                            This is consistent. Do you realize who the Luddites were?

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            3
                            • C chunes@lemmy.world

                              Never thought I’d agree with Tim Sweeney on anything.

                              John Carmack has a good take on AI in game dev too.

                              R This user is from outside of this forum
                              R This user is from outside of this forum
                              rampantparanoia2365@lemmy.world
                              wrote on last edited by rampantparanoia2365@lemmy.world
                              #112

                              There’s a huge difference between AI for behind the scenes things, and AI artwork, animation, and voices.

                              appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
                              9
                              • 1 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de

                                AI generated visuals and music are one thing, but one use of AI in that category is giving NPCs actually interesting things to say.

                                Currently, without AI, they have one or two lines about the weather, or the general state of affairs, but if you can pass an LLM the current state of the world and the player’s recent actions, then run the output through a tts model tuned to a distinct voice to, you’d be making the world feel way deeper than it is now with much more insightful interactions. You could maybe go even further and add infinite mini-quests in a similar manner, but it’s better to start off small.

                                AI doesn’t have to replace, and the best studios will use it to enhance and add to their art, the average ones will avoid it, and the worst ones will use it to replace art.

                                B This user is from outside of this forum
                                B This user is from outside of this forum
                                bthest
                                wrote on last edited by bold_atlas@lemmy.world
                                #113

                                And who’s going to be powering that NPC’s LLM model? Unless all you want is a free hotlinked chatbot window disguised as a character? Because the publishers and developers sure as hell won’t power it on their end and if they do you’ll be paying out the ass for it. Otherwise that LLM for an NPC will have to run locally on your own hardware…in addition to the game itself.

                                So yeah, have fun with that.

                                And dialogue generation is ALL they can do btw. They can’t navigate a character around a 3d environment or even play against you in a grand strategy game. So, looking at RAM and GPU prices… yeah the novelty of LLM in games will run it’s course pretty quick.

                                1 appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 2 Replies Last reply
                                3
                                • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                                  This post did not contain any content.
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                                  feathercrown@lemmy.world
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #114

                                  This is why Epic is losing lol

                                  appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
                                  19
                                  • M monkeyslikebananas2@lemmy.world

                                    Waste of ink really

                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    scmstr@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #115

                                    People are all gonna die, eventually. Might as well get it over with.

                                    appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 1 Reply Last reply
                                    5
                                    • B bthest

                                      And who’s going to be powering that NPC’s LLM model? Unless all you want is a free hotlinked chatbot window disguised as a character? Because the publishers and developers sure as hell won’t power it on their end and if they do you’ll be paying out the ass for it. Otherwise that LLM for an NPC will have to run locally on your own hardware…in addition to the game itself.

                                      So yeah, have fun with that.

                                      And dialogue generation is ALL they can do btw. They can’t navigate a character around a 3d environment or even play against you in a grand strategy game. So, looking at RAM and GPU prices… yeah the novelty of LLM in games will run it’s course pretty quick.

                                      1 This user is from outside of this forum
                                      1 This user is from outside of this forum
                                      1rre@discuss.tchncs.de
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #116

                                      It’d be a small model run locally, taking up maybe half a GB of VRAM

                                      I 1 Reply Last reply
                                      3
                                      • F feathercrown@lemmy.world

                                        This is why Epic is losing lol

                                        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #117

                                        Agreed.
                                        What does it cost them to make a checkbox and show the value to the customer?

                                        If they fear it, they know that the knowledge will make me think twice on buying it.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        5
                                        • iontempted@lemmynsfw.comI iontempted@lemmynsfw.com

                                          I’ve said this before that typically people don’t know what they are talking about AI, but I don’t expect this from people who SHOULD know what AI is.

                                          There could be technologies that AI can assist with, hell I’m not a game dev but I assume even back in the day, devs used tricks and technologies that today could be considered as AI

                                          However AI as in it will write you code, generate you a game and write you a story? Hell no.

                                          appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                                          appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                                          appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                                          wrote on last edited by appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                                          #118

                                          Yes, nuance is important

                                          but
                                          I’d argue that demanding the customer seller fill out a 20 page form on what the AI was used for (and additionally which model) would result in the opposite sentiment for the seller and customer.
                                          Theres a line between too little and too much information.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          2

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