Valve bows to Kremlin: LGBTQ+ solitaire game [Flick Solitaire] pulled from russian Steam [cited a 2006 federal law prohibiting the "promotion of non-traditional sexualities"]
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What Steam should do, and what every other country and business should do is leave russia (and israel etc etc etc). They should completely stop importing or exporting until that country starts to play nice with others.
The. Fucking. End.
If they are invading/causing genocide/generally be cunts then 100% ignore and sanction that country. Nothing in, nothing out. Physically or digitally. Nothing. Fuck 'em until they stop being scummy pieces of shit.It won’t happen, obviously, because nearly every politician and upper corporate ghouls are corrupt. But that’s what should happen.
I think that is the wrong approach. North Korea is the result of what you advocate for, a people who do not know the possibility of other lifestyles. The complete isolation of a country is similar to locking up a child in a basement: It corrodes the mind and prevents escape for something better.
This isn’t to say that Russia, Israel, nor North Korea shouldn’t be impacted by their harmful characters. Instead, they should be treated like post-WW2 Japan, where outsiders force reforms. In Japan’s case, that was the dismantling of mega-corporation zaibatsu, ensuring democratic voting, removing previous leadership, reconstruction programs, and so forth.
It isn’t much different from tending a garden, where you both help and harm to ensure that the best plants get ahead of weeds.
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I’d assume the argument is the same kind of one made for sanctions, you restrict the interaction with the country to indicate you are displeased with some action(s) that government has taken.
It’s not a good argument , mind you.
Okay, yeah, I see what you mean.
Yeah, I dunno, I think I don’t feel like it’s the most effective way to fight the war machine, to restrict non-enlisted from playing games lol. They are giving money to Valve anyway. Not being able to buy games wouldn’t affect someone negatively, I feel. If anything it might make them richer and more productive.
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Valve Bows to Kremlin: LGBTQ+ Solitaire Game Pulled from Russian Steam
Valve sparks outrage by removing the LGBTQ+ inclusive game Flick Solitaire from Steam in Russia, bowing to Kremlin censorship demands while Apple and Google refuse.
PlayerOne (www.player.one)
I fed up to see the discourse about steam being the best thing since sliced bread. Its a shitty company, pro censure, anti lgbt, anti owning game, with another oligarch ceo . I exclusively use GoG now
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These comments are shit. Who said that you should comply with Russia’s laws???
Money, I guess. GabeN needed a new yatch
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Not a defense, but aren’t a lot of the steam games at least runnable without the front end?
Not as much as GOG obviously, but some ?
Lots of indie games yes, but not so many of the AAAs
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Not a defense, but aren’t a lot of the steam games at least runnable without the front end?
Not as much as GOG obviously, but some ?
Afaik no. Some games will run with steam open in offline mode without an internet connection but that’s about it.
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This sucks.
However, I think it is important for Steam to continue operating in Russia: by seeing the living standards of other people across the world, younger Russians will develop those same expectations. Everyday things like furnishings, food, how people treat each other, and so forth. When the Russia we know dies, it will be important for the Russians of the future to have ideas and desires to drive them forward. Also, Russian authorities won’t be able to fully inspect ALL media for LGBTQ+, which means that people will see something that they “shouldn’t”.
In the long run, the media that people consume will determine how they feel their nation should become. It is my hope that Putin’s Russia will die in the coming years, and a better nation born from the ashes.
This is a very naive and ignorant take. In the major cities, quality of life is on part with EU for many.
Furthermore, even with demographic splits (e.g. russians aged 18-24, urban russians), all major demographic groups show at least strong majority support for chauvinism, authoritarianism and genocidal imperialism.
There are some variations of course. But it’s more along the lines of overwhelming/near absolute majority support (e.g 50+) or strong majority support (18-34). You also find interesting variantions where “middle age” segments tend to be less supportive (on a relative basis, the segment as whole still shows strong majority support) of genocidal imperialism than young adults/early middle age (18-34); likely because they have more to lose.
Russians have the capability to build a better future for themselves (without invasions), they just don’t want to because they haven’t gotten a taste of their own medicine (where they are treated like they treat others).
EU is massive in enabling this attitude. Consider the fact that Merkel, even from retirement, is promoting russian genocidal imperialism by claiming that Poland and the Baltic nation are responsible for the full scale invasion:
When it’s the russians and putin (a symptom, with the cause being russians) who are to blame for their own invasion.
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Your choice as Valve here is to either delist or not be in Russia. It is easy for me, as someone not in Russia, to cheer Valve to fight the good fight. But, it would suck if I were in Russia and suddenly lost access to my games.
This is the most sane take I’ve seen. It’s honestly weird how ignorant this thread is, regional censorship is not new. Australia has a habit of banning violent games. The Middle East and China have a habit of censoring all sorts of things. Many countries have their own laws of what is and isn’t okay and they fluctuate all the time. My friend in Germany couldn’t play Wolfenstein because any games with Nazi imagery were illegal until relatively recently.
Literally every company that operates in those countries also censor their stuff. The only reason this article exists is because [thing but Russia] gets more clicks and outrage compared to [thing in fifty other countries]. You’re free to hate Steam for it but this isn’t weird or exclusive behavior. They’re running a business.
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Valve Bows to Kremlin: LGBTQ+ Solitaire Game Pulled from Russian Steam
Valve sparks outrage by removing the LGBTQ+ inclusive game Flick Solitaire from Steam in Russia, bowing to Kremlin censorship demands while Apple and Google refuse.
PlayerOne (www.player.one)
I wonder if the same people who say Steam should pull out of Russia would agree that Steam should also pull out from the US. I mean, that’s what should happen given the basis of the arguments being used, right?
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Afaik no. Some games will run with steam open in offline mode without an internet connection but that’s about it.
All the games will run in offline mode, unless they specifically require the steam services to start, like anticheat and stuff. It’s a gamedev decision, not Valve’s
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It’s called “complying with the law”.
They should comply to the laws they are operating In… now should they stop operating in a country becuase of disagreement with the laws? Perhaps.
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I think that is the wrong approach. North Korea is the result of what you advocate for, a people who do not know the possibility of other lifestyles. The complete isolation of a country is similar to locking up a child in a basement: It corrodes the mind and prevents escape for something better.
This isn’t to say that Russia, Israel, nor North Korea shouldn’t be impacted by their harmful characters. Instead, they should be treated like post-WW2 Japan, where outsiders force reforms. In Japan’s case, that was the dismantling of mega-corporation zaibatsu, ensuring democratic voting, removing previous leadership, reconstruction programs, and so forth.
It isn’t much different from tending a garden, where you both help and harm to ensure that the best plants get ahead of weeds.
Of course, none of that is possible against a nuclear power, because it first relies on unconditional surrender. I also don’t think any leaders in the world have to political will to do that, either.
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These comments are shit. Who said that you should comply with Russia’s laws???
People who love valve more than human rights
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Your choice as Valve here is to either delist or not be in Russia. It is easy for me, as someone not in Russia, to cheer Valve to fight the good fight. But, it would suck if I were in Russia and suddenly lost access to my games.
Yeah, I don’t know why it’s news at all. It happens in every other country with any amount of censorship, US included.
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The alternative is to stop doing business in places where laws are being used to restrict the games available.
Don’t get me wrong, fuck the russian government and the horse they rode in on, but unless you have a defend-able reason that russia should be singled out in this context your argument is emotional rhetoric and little else.
You could perhaps narrow that down to a subset of applicable laws, but i’d lay good money that any group/type of laws you pick are not go only contain russia and still be able to be considered a reasonable argument.
The alternative is to stop doing business in places where laws are being used to restrict the games available.
Incorrect. You are completely ignoring what those restrictions are.
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I fed up to see the discourse about steam being the best thing since sliced bread. Its a shitty company, pro censure, anti lgbt, anti owning game, with another oligarch ceo . I exclusively use GoG now
If I’m looking to buy a game online, the prices are comprable and one is DRM-free on GoG, I go with GoG everytime.
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Just inspecting the double standard often seen in issues like these. Russia bad Amerikkka good etc.
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Valve Bows to Kremlin: LGBTQ+ Solitaire Game Pulled from Russian Steam
Valve sparks outrage by removing the LGBTQ+ inclusive game Flick Solitaire from Steam in Russia, bowing to Kremlin censorship demands while Apple and Google refuse.
PlayerOne (www.player.one)
So, human rights stuff aside, how/why the fuck do we need a genderised solitaire?
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Of course, none of that is possible against a nuclear power, because it first relies on unconditional surrender. I also don’t think any leaders in the world have to political will to do that, either.
IMO, the key points for handling a nuclear power is two or three things:
1: Identify potential replacement of leadership, who would be open to negotiation. They just need to see value in having dealings with other powers. It could be a gift, political legitimacy, or the threat of being removed from the census.
2: Collaborate with “outside” powers to cushion the repercussions of removing the target country’s inconvenient leadership. For example, offering aid to civilians, moving military forces around to increase or ease tension, establishing narratives, ect.
3: The actual removal of the existing leadership. Trump sent a special forces team into North Korea. That was stupid, but a carefully planned operation with a genuine goal, such as eliminating the Kim family, might work out. This assumes that China is participating, as the northern border is probably less secure against intrusion. At this point, China probably doesn’t want North Korea around, because Kim could point a missile at someplace unwanted, and unprompted.
I am not saying it to be easy, it is more about leaders having enough guts and foresight to consider such measures. Putin’s Russia certainly does some of this, considering the shadow fleets, hacking, and influencer operations. Krasnov is an example of removing leadership without even involving blood, by influencing politics from afar.
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IMO, the key points for handling a nuclear power is two or three things:
1: Identify potential replacement of leadership, who would be open to negotiation. They just need to see value in having dealings with other powers. It could be a gift, political legitimacy, or the threat of being removed from the census.
2: Collaborate with “outside” powers to cushion the repercussions of removing the target country’s inconvenient leadership. For example, offering aid to civilians, moving military forces around to increase or ease tension, establishing narratives, ect.
3: The actual removal of the existing leadership. Trump sent a special forces team into North Korea. That was stupid, but a carefully planned operation with a genuine goal, such as eliminating the Kim family, might work out. This assumes that China is participating, as the northern border is probably less secure against intrusion. At this point, China probably doesn’t want North Korea around, because Kim could point a missile at someplace unwanted, and unprompted.
I am not saying it to be easy, it is more about leaders having enough guts and foresight to consider such measures. Putin’s Russia certainly does some of this, considering the shadow fleets, hacking, and influencer operations. Krasnov is an example of removing leadership without even involving blood, by influencing politics from afar.
Yes, those things can be done, and they’re good ideas. One key difference between the U.S. and North Korea thing is that Russia can, or at least is believed to be able to, use a nuclear response anywhere in the world. North Korea couldn’t threaten the U.S. with nuclear reprisal. But, yes, removing the entrenched and uncompromising leader is the first step, and that is much harder against a nuclear power.
